The Afternoon Skate: Flatley’s First, Collberg Hurt

Kevin Schultz

Here’s a little bit of a history lesson as we start to near the summer, which is the usual time of year for these things. Back in 1984, Pat Flatley joined the Islanders for the first time since being taken 21st overall in the 1982 draft. The long time Islanders captain made his debut for the team on February 29, 1984 in Winnipeg against the (old) Jets. Flatley would contribute immediately, scoring on his first NHL shot only 5-plus minutes into the game.  

Want to go into a bit of a time warp? Well, here’s the video of that entire game. Thanks to Eric D for passing it along. Flatley’s goal comes at the 11:20 mark of the video but if you have the time you might want to watch the whole 11 minutes for the 30-year old commercials and the soothing tones of Jiggs McDonald. He sounds exactly the same, save for the different names on the ice.

After the goal McDonald and his co-announcer Ed Westfall remark about how they, and Flatley, will remember this for a long time. And, well, here we all are.

Eric Hornick also writes in to say that this game is the only leap-day win in the history of the franchise.

Here’s part of the NY Times’ recap of the game:

Flatley, who became a professional Monday after returning from the Olympics, scored on his first National Hockey League shot 5 minutes 53 seconds into the opening period.

With John Tonelli fighting for the puck in the left corner, the 20-year-old right wing moved into the fray and cleanly checked Lucien DeBlois into the boards and took the puck. He then skated out toward the slot, turned around, and beat Soetaert with a 15- footer that went just inside the left post.

”I usually don’t look at the net when I’m in that close,” said Flatley, whose goal gave the Islanders a 1-0 lead. ”If you look, then the goalie might see you looking. I just fired away. The passing is harder, crisper here. And the players are stronger. But I think I’ll get used to it.”


In more modern news, Sebastian Collberg has a separated shoulder and may fly to Long Island to be further evaluated by the Islanders medical staff. In his post, Arthur Staple also hints at Collberg heading to Bridgeport next year.


To build off of the Josh Bailey-centric post from yesterday, Harry shares his thoughts and analyzes the 9th overall picks taken in the years prior to and after the drafting of Bailey. Harry writes that Bailey is in the middle of the pack. The whole thing is worth a read as well.

Summary: The draft sucks. That 2008 draft sucked after the 4th pick. So in moving down, we got a few more lottery tickets that eventually allowed us to pick Hamonic. Also, take a look at how many really good teams missed completely in these draft spots, but surprise, surprise, they spent and were able to cover up the mistake.

So from 2000 through 2011, Phaneuf, Couture, Granlund, and Hamilton are better choices at the 9 spot, leaving Bailey right in the middle of players drafted in this spot. The argument can be made that he isn’t a star and we should cut him loose, but then there is an argument that his floor is 30 points plus good possession, with the clear skill to produce more, and he’s an NHL player.

Also: Pro Hockey Talk ranks the worst 5-on-5 teams and the Islanders are where you would expect them to be… Sports Illustrated puts the Islanders at #2 on the “Fan Misery Rankings”…




73 comments
truth77
truth77

I remember like it was yesterday when they came up after the Olympics.La fontaine got pushed around his first couple of years ,but like all the great ones he knew what it would take to get better a strength program . They didnt knock him off the puck that easy after that.Both Great Hockey Players The Islanders are playing much better since A Mac traded and they play much better with Visnovsky out of the lineup, one is too slow the other to weak and old.Hickey plus 14 on a very bad team lay off Hickey he has played well.Just think if we had a real Coach we would of had a chance to be 500, even with all the garbage that has gone on this year.Not saying that is acceptable.Bailey plays like a 5th rounder not a first.De haan and Nelson are hockey players and will be solid if they stay healthy .lee is going to get better and Strome is going to have three times more assist then goals in his Career, that is what type of hockey player He  is, reminds me somewhat of Washington Head Coach.A Goalie ,New Coach ,no more Stupid Trades and a Winger we should be a lot better Next Year.Any day now De haan and Hamonic  will open up the first minute of the Power play Yeah right!Next year New Goalie New Coach Hopefully.Playing a real good team in Tampa lets see how the young guys do.

phishstyx1
phishstyx1

Loved that hit on the big nothing Barry Beck, ending his career. Why don't the moron's at MSG chant Flatley sucks??

Mike Maino
Mike Maino

Ah, those were the days.


Just kidding. I'm a grown man and I wasn't alive for this.

mrcisback
mrcisback

                       So the Islanders are going to be involved in a trade with Winnipeg at the draft with Dustin Byfuglien and Evander Kane coming to the Islanders. I could just imagine what Islander players will be going back the other way. By the way this is per Hockeythebuzz. There about as accurate as the National Enquirer. I'll believe it when i see it.

Macacawitz
Macacawitz

How depressing.


I remember Flatley coming from Team Canada and Lafontaine from Team USA following the Olympics in '84.  Who would have thought that starting with that season there would be constant heartache for 3 decades. With no end in sight.  It's hearbreaking.





jepliberty
jepliberty

Who didn't see that coming, another Snow pick, Snow couldn't pick his seat in a movie theater.

slapshot18_rs
slapshot18_rs

@Jason Zimmermann  Josh Bailey has a TON of skill...he has clearly lost his confidence but he has some of the softest hands on the entire team.  You must have short term memory only when it comes to the islanders. 

REDSpointofview
REDSpointofview

@mrcisback  

I do not understand your rush to ship Franz Nielsen out of here.  He wants to be the #3 center, and has stated that on numerous occasions.  In that role, with Grabner and Clutterbuck on his wings, they comprise what just might be the very best third line in the entire NHL.  Nielsen kills penalties, can play the point on the power play, averages 15 G and 32 A in his tenure here, is a consummate checking center and owns the best over-all scoring percentage in the NHL's OT shoot out.  He will turn 30 years old next month, still at the height of his production, and is signed for two more years at a bargain $2.75 million.  

If Snow is to make that deal with Winnipeg, and rumors are what they are,,, rumors,,, it will take a package of picks and prospects to get the deal done starting with this years #1, which should slot two or three picks ahead of Winnipeg's #1.  If Snow considers Nelson and Strome viable candidates for the #2 job here, then one of them will go in that deal.  I imagine Reinhart also part of that package and maybe Winnipeg is looking to move a spot or two higher and grab his brother Sam with our pick.  There are some mock draft boards that actually have Sam Reinhart falling to the #3 or #4 spot.  That's where Snow will start, offering Winnipeg a choice of Strome or Nelson, Reinhart and the #1 and see what else it's going to take.  I do not want to see Nielsen go in any kind of deal and can safely say that Snow has a lot of other viable assets to make that so... 

willymayshays
willymayshays

@mrcisback

Love to be able to keep Reinhart, Nelson, de Haan and Lee.  Strome, Pelech and picks? (Lots of picks) 

MM__________    JT________KO

Lee___________ Nelson_____Kane

Grabs_________ Frans_____ CBuck

Martin_________ Cizi_______ McDonald/?

Byfug________Vis/Hickey

Hamonic _____de Haan

Reinhart______Hickey/Donovan

Reimer

Nabby



doc942
doc942

@jepliberty  Really?  Snow picked Tavares, Nelson, Lee, de Haan, Strome, Pulock, Reinhart, Hamonic, Cizikas, Martin, Pelech, Pokka, Nino, MacDonald, Mayfield, Spurgeon, Ness, Donovan and several other lesser talented picks.  He's been successful in the waiver wire as well - Grabner, Hickey, Moulson, Strait.  But he's missed on some draft picks too of course... but hey, look Bill Torrey missed on some as well.  Overall, Snow has drafted well.  He has not succeeded (actually he's been very bad with signing FA's and with making trades which obviously has hurt the team tremendously).  But to say he can't draft is disingenuous at best.  I am not a Snow apologist... just a realist.  The team stinks right now but it's not really for poor drafting.

John Richards
John Richards

Wang cut snowys allowance so he can't go to the movies!!

mrcisback
mrcisback

@REDSpointofview @mrcisback    Red i'm not crazy about trading Frans Nielson but if you don't include Frans Nielson then what type of package do you think its going to take to Acquire Evander Kane and Dustin Byfuglien. I'll tell you what 2 of Brock Nelson, Ryan Strome or Anders Lee to start with. Then add Reinhart or Pulock and this years #1. Maybe they ask for Hammer of Calvin DeHaan instead.  Winnipeg said they wanted a big package just for Kane. I could just imagine what they want if you add Byfuglien.

mrcisback
mrcisback

@CaptainT @mrcisback   Its going to take a much bigger package to get Evander Kane and Dustin Byfuglien.  I bet Winnipeg asks for Okposo which i would turn down immediately. I would say its going to cost Nielson and 2 of Nelson,Reinhart,Lee or Strome and probably a switch of 1st rounders. Maybe Nielson Hammer and a switch of 1st rounders could also could be a possibility.

Chris
Chris

@willymayshays @mrcisback- I don't wanna pee in your corn flakes, but we need to stop with this "possible line combination" nonsense.


This team stinks, and it stinks from the head down. Nothing will get better, no young talent will improve, no serious FA will consider the Islanders when the dynamic stupid trio of Wang, Snow and Capuano are out.


Until then, nothing - NOTHING - will get better.


21 years since we won a playoff series.

mrcisback
mrcisback

@willymayshays @mrcisback I think Evander Kane is going to be playing left wing on Tavares line. I would rather include Frans Nielson in that trade before i start giving up Strome, Lee, Nelson, Reinhart or Pulock.

Vicp73
Vicp73

@doc942  Your right Doc,  Snow has been doing a fantastic job if your into bottom feeding. 

Are you serious? You just listed a bunch of guys that haven't played one NHL game, plus guys like Martin, Cizikas,Ness,Donavon  on most teams would be playing for their AHL affiliate. Hickey and Strait as good waiver wire pickups? Name one team that would have Strait or Hickey on their roster?  


Tavares was a no brainer , I'll give him some credit for Lee, Nelson and CDH . 

jepliberty
jepliberty

@doc942

Perhaps after all these years you are semi satisfied with the amount of work Snow has done as GM, I agree with Johns post, but as most in here agree, Snow is about as capable at his job as Lois Lerner was, formerly of the IRS, and we get the same amount of info from Snow, and Wang as we got from her, which was zilch, nada nothing. When is someone in this Nation, and in the Islanders organization going to be held accountable for the mess both entities are in. PS: sorry for the political analogy, but it fits. I am also amazed that for my simple comment about Snow you gleaned all that, and what you posted back in reply to me.

John Richards
John Richards

Nobody but tavares is anything but a complementary player!! Grabner is an inconsistant player at best!! Many you just mentioned haven't played one minute in the NHL!! Strait is awful/hickey is too small even with his +/-!! Moulson is gone!! Did you hear what snow said about Matty recently??cmon he's drafted horribly!!

Vicp73
Vicp73

@mrcisback @Vicp73 @REDSpointofview  It all depends what the asking price is, but if the rumor is true and Garth by  some miraculous miracle can pull off a deal of this sorts i would have no problem with Byfuglien on our team either. Let's wait and see, personally i don't believe the rumor to be true, just doesn't make sense for the Jets

mrcisback
mrcisback

@Vicp73 @REDSpointofview @mrcisback   Evander Kane, John Tavares and Kyle Okposo would be a very very dangerous line. No one will take any more liberties on Tavares as long as Kane is there.

Vicp73
Vicp73

@REDSpointofview @Vicp73 @mrcisback  You'll think i'm crazy but for Evander Kane i'll trade anyone of our prospects for him,  including Strome. Only cause Kane is still young and has already established himself as a solid power forward who can play. You know what your getting with Kane. 

REDSpointofview
REDSpointofview

@Vicp73 @REDSpointofview @mrcisback  

Although I can agree that Kane would be a great LW for Tavares, there is a limit to how much you can pay for him and Byfuglien.  I also have this suspicion that Winnipeg might be taking a run at Sam Reinhart, and that's why Griffen would have to be a part of this deal.  Their #1 will slot about #7-8, ours about #4.  Trade those two to Buffalo or Edmonton in a swap and they can possibly get Sam Reinhart.   Otherwise,,, I am a bit perplexed about why they're willing to trade both unless it has something to do with the $10.5 million owed them next year... 

Vicp73
Vicp73

@REDSpointofview @mrcisback  The Jets have been playing him(Byfuglien) as a RW the last 20 games or so,  what i don`t understand is why would Winnipeg want to trade Kane and Byfuglien 2 of their top 5 players when their so close to making that  jump of becoming a regular playoff team. I really would love Kane on this team though, the perfect winger for JT

REDSpointofview
REDSpointofview

@mrcisback  

As I said,,, Strome or Nelson, Reinhart and the #1 is a start.  See where that goes and then maybe add one of the #2's from this year and say Ville Pokka...  That's three top five picks and two second rounders.   If Winnipeg still wants more than that, offer Czuczman.  After that it gets a little dicey about how much that deal is really worth.  While Kane is a top line talent, Byfuglien is really just an average defenseman,,, huge but not all that mobile, talented offensively but more so when he's playing on the wing.  That package I just put together is as high as I would go,,, three talented young defensemen, a top five drafted forward if it's Strome, and a first and second round pick...  

John Richards
John Richards

I'd through bailey into long island sound!! Wait even the fish want no part of him!!

jepliberty
jepliberty

@mrcisback

I'd throw Bailey in as  complimentary piece, see if they bite on that. Perhaps eat part of his contract.

mrcisback
mrcisback

@willymayshays @Chris @mrcisback    Thank you very very much Willy. You took the words right out of my mouth. The negative fans just kill me with all there Wang, Snow ,Capuano sucks stuff over and over again.We know this already. If you hate the organization so much then just don't go to games any more, don't watch the Islanders on TV or listen on the radio. Put your money where your mouth is. I was a big Knick fan and used to go to games and also watch religiously. I haven't gone to a game in 15 years or watched a game because i couldn't take the nonsense anymore.

willymayshays
willymayshays

@Chris @willymayshays@mrcisback 

If all you want to do is talk about how the organization and ownership sucks, go ahead.  If you want to take yourself out of this conversation, than by all means, do so.

slapshot18_rs
slapshot18_rs

@mrcisback  fact is you have to give something to get something - i love nielsen, he is the most under rated center in the league - but as the older guy in the group, i would give him up to get someone younger and more skilled. 

mrcisback
mrcisback

@slapshot18_rs @willymayshays @mrcisback   I absolutely don't want to trade Strome,Nelson or Lee. Thats why i keep bringing up Frans Nielsons name in any possible trades and people get mad at me. If you don't include Nielson then its going to take two of Strome,Nelson and Lee plust to get a deal done of that magnitude.

mrcisback
mrcisback

@mitchfritz @mrcisback @willymayshays    Mitch i had Couturier  #1 and Hamilton #1A in that draft. Strome was a distant #3rd on my list. Huberdeau would have been gone before the Islanders picked.

mrcisback
mrcisback

@willymayshays @mrcisback  I really wanted Couturier instead of Strome but Strome is just a rookie. I just hope Snow doesn't blow it again and get ripped off with any possible trade. I just don't have any confidence that he could make a good trade in light of the Vanek disaster.

willymayshays
willymayshays

@mrcisback @willymayshays

Of course, but I would still put up a good package of picks and prospects.  Strome is still a top 10 on every prospect list, I just have concerns with him.

mrcisback
mrcisback

@willymayshays @mrcisback   I really like Nielson but you have to give something to get something. Now Strome has 12 points in 27 games mostly playing on the 3rd and 4th lines. If Strome played from the start of the season he would probably end with 10 or 12 goals and 35 points as a rookie. Evander Kane can play left wing or right wing.

doc942
doc942

@mitchfritz @doc942  You can't just say Snow sucks at drafting and win the argument.  Compare his similar draft positions and see what other teams have taken in similar years.  As BAD as Bailey has been, most fans wanted Filatov.  Were actually pulling their hair out when he passed on and traded out of that spot.  So please, stop telling me how you all would have got it right.

doc942
doc942

@mitchfritz @doc942  Fantastic... you guys win.  I'm not saying any of the lower level "talent" is worthy of any status.  I mentioned the good with the bad.  i.e. Ness, and the unproven, i.e. Mayfield, Donovan etc. to go along with the good.  I am not happy with the teams current situation and Snow is as much to blame for that.


My point is - His drafting is NOT the problem. Signing or trading for a legit #1 goalie and signing a BIG FA to either play defense or on the wing with Tavares is where he has failed.


And for whatever the reason, money, Wang, bad team and cannot attract the talent, he has failed miserably.

Vicp73
Vicp73

@doc942  Yes i know Gordie Lane,  I was 10 years old when i first saw  him play and i remember saying `wow what a  tough stay at home defenseman .`I don`t know whether he was loved in the dressing room or not, or whether he was respected, Frankly i don`t care.. What i do know is from a young age i can judge whether a player has talent or not, and thats without yelling `he sucks``. The fact that your proping up Strait and Hickey as these wonderful waiver wire pickups is absurd.

As far as the LA GM(Dean Lambardi) goes, he acknowledged that was his biggest mistake as a gm, he cut bait and 4 years later won a Stanley Cup. Probably Lambardi`s only mistake in rebuilding the Kings. Now how many mistakes has Garth made as the gm of the isles

Vicp73
Vicp73

@doc942 @Vicp73  Oh so you want to give Snow credit for Tavares? Oh  Please Tavares at the age of 12 was a phenom, he was the closest thing to a sure thing. You or I or anyone who could read a hockey news edition would have made that pick. Yes there are always chances of a player being a bust of coarse, but i'm not giving Snow credit cause the lotto balls fell in his favor

doc942
doc942

@Vicp73 @doc942  Nail Yakupov was a no brainer too.  As was Alexi Yashin and Alexander Daigle.  All "no brainers" 

doc942
doc942

@Vicp73 @doc942  I never said he was doing a fantastic job.  He's made some very good draft selections.  He's made some bad ones.  Ness will never see another game, most likely, in an Islander uniform.  I'm not holding him up on the "good" side of the ledger saying that was a great pick.  He was a middle 2nd round pick.  Same deal goes for Strait - he fills a need.  Hickey is a good hockey player and getting better.  I guess the GM in LA that drafted him #4 overall is a genius right?


You know... Gordie Lane was not Denis Potvin either... but he had a place on the team and filled a role.  And his teammates liked him and respected him.  I remember screaming at the TV whenever he messed up. But I was 12-14 years and I had the brain power of a 12 to 14 year old.  Then I matured and grew up a little and started to have rational thought processes instead of just yelling "he sucks" all the time. 

Vicp73
Vicp73

@tag1 @camb33 @Vicp73 @doc942 Morning Tag, Let's say that some of these prospects do pan out,  it's still going to be years before this team becomes a playoff contender.  Garth will be working on the 12 year rebuild before you know it.

ejej
ejej

@Vicp73- Agreed. I have used the term "frail" on Strome. But, in this "system" who really is used properly for development? His resume coming in was a highly skilled center, good skater. Early grading for me is a C, average at best. I see more upside EARLY in Brock Nelson. 

Vicp73
Vicp73

@ejej @Vicp73  Morning ej, i'm also starting to get that unpleasant feeling in my stomach watching Ryan Strome. Was he overhyped?  I'm not a fan of his 5 on 5 play, his defensive zone coverage is lacking , and is very easily pushed off the puck. I really hope I'm wrong. A full season next your should tell us a lot more

tag1
tag1

@camb33 @Vicp73@doc942 Good morning everyone, I just pulled this from the SI article linked from above:


"Considering where they’ve drafted during the past five or six seasons, the Islanders should have one of the deepest systems in hockey. That they’re actually slotted somewhere in the middle of the pack reveals how inconsistently they’ve managed their assets."

Could we stop patting snow on the back for having "prospects", considering we've been finishing at the bottom of the league year after year with him (except the fluke last season) that's the least we should have right now within this organization. 

ejej
ejej

@Vicp73- Morning Vic. Did you notice who was omitted from that staggering list? That's right, #12, the 2008 #1 pick by the Snowman...probably just an oversight...LOL

doc942
doc942

@John Richards  Hamonic is a 23 year old defensemen drafted in the 3rd round.  I think a lot of teams would like that type of drafting.  de Haan for all of the past 30 games has been a revelation.  Considering how so many people gave up on the kid - Also 22 years old.  Brock Nelson was the last pick of the 1st round.  Snow traded back into the 1st round to grab him.  Pretty good move on the part of Snow.  Strome has a lot to prove... but all indications are he will be a very good player.  I think we can agree that Reinhart and Pulock will be as good as advertised (we hope).  The lack of current success (crap) is not directly tied to the impact that players can and will have.  

Harry F
Harry F

@John Richards  what's an "impact player", especially one drafted out of the top 3? You make drafting seem so easy

John Richards
John Richards

@harryf name one other impact player snow has drafted on this team?? Don't give me hamonic he's a 4 a best on most teams!!

Harry F
Harry F

@doc942 @John Richards  the core that has been drafted, if supplemented by any type of real veterans, like how chicago and pittsburg or tampa did (all who had multiple top 2 picks in the draft, which gets you a significantly better player than a 4 or 5 overall) would take this team to the next level, unfortunately, money isn't being spent. To say Snow hasn't drafted well means you have your head buried in the sand.

doc942
doc942

@John Richards  I'm not happy with the total sum of the team. I said the team stinks and I'm not disillusioned by a few wins in meaningless games.  But the problem has not been in the draft.  It's with finding a great goalie and signing significant free agents to go along with the drafted talent to put the team over the top.

John Richards
John Richards

Talk to me in November when this team hits the skid!!

John Richards
John Richards

Let's not make Brock nelson out to be gilbert Perrault OK!! Dehann is still eratic at best strome needs to get better even strength hickey is too small!! BTW the isles win meaningless games in march and you are sold on the quality of the talent?? I'm not cause crappy still coaches this team/snow is still the gm/and wang still owns it!! I rest my case!!

doc942
doc942

@John Richards  You don't think Brock Nelson, de Haan, Hamonic, Strome, Martin are better than complimentary players?  So Snow sucks because he picked up Grabner and Hickey on the waiver wire for nothing, but the GM's that dropped them are geniuses?  Wow...!