IPB Holiday Mailbag, Pt 2: Tavares, Goalies, Trades and Firings

John: Do you see the Islanders chasing a free agent goalie in the off season, and who would be a likely target since there could be some interesting names out there like Jonas Hiller, Jaro Halak, Brian Elliott, Ryan Miller is probably a pipe dream… but you get the picture.

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

 I think the Isles have to look for a goaltender in the off-season. Hiller would be a solid pick up. He’s having a good year out in Anaheim and could help this team immensely. Halak and Elliott would be good as well. Just a matter of getting them to come here. Always been a tough job for Snow to get players to sign on. May be easier to get a goaltender via the trade route if a deal can be made.

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

They need a goaltender in the worst way. Nabokov has been better than Poulin/Nilsson since returning from injury, and that’s not saying much. You can look at the full free agent list here and there are a lot of names in a lot of different price ranges. The ones that look the best to me are Miller, Hiller and Halak. Dubnyk, Gustavsson, Giguere and Scrivens are some other interesting, cheaper names. They’ve already traded a couple picks, so I’d rather wait till the off-season and sign one of these guys unless they can get someone under contract for a good amount of time. No reason trading for any UFA goalies unless it’s later on in the instance of a late pick for negotiation rights.

Mike G: More of a topic. Can you talk about how the losing will affect JT’s  future with the team and the setback that it will be if he decides to leave.  It would be hard to root for this team if they let him go. I would not forgive management.

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

I think Tavares is extremely frustrated with how this season has gone, and so is everyone else in the room. Do I think this one bad season will make him want to leave Long Island? No. Five more bad seasons? Then you can be concerned. But right now I think if anything this just makes him even hungrier to get this team back on the right track.

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

I’d agree that while this year is very bad, this year alone wouldn’t make him push the panic button. He’s a calm, committed player and we saw that even going as far back as three weeks prior to the Islanders ever drafting him. He’s unbelievably driven and seems to be the type of player who puts a lot of the responsibility on himself before anyone else. Once we get closer to July 2018, then yes, this is a conversation to have. I don’t see him requesting a trade or anything of that sort. Just not that kind of person.
Lenny S: Why do I still care about this organization?

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

Cause you’re crazy haha. No, cause like many other fans, you love this team and hold out hope that they will turn things around. That they will get back to the top of the NHL where they once were. Fandom is like being in love you could say. Sometimes it seems crazy and irrational, but you just can’t break the spell.
Isles in NC: What will it take to get Jack Capuano fired from the Isles? Seems at this point, he has no real answers to anything. Can’t understand why he is not gone, and they give Doug Weight the interim tag, to give him a test run. And then if he fails by season’s end, they spend off-season looking for a REAL coach….

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

 I don’t know how much better the team would do with Doug Weight in charge than Capuano: Sure maybe he would be a more fiery coach, but he has run an NHL bench just once or twice in his life. Plus it seems like management wants to build up his coaching experience before they hand him the head-coaching job. If they make a coaching change, I would not wait until the summer to find a “real coach.”

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

NC, I’m not Capuano’s biggest fan. I understand that he’s been given the lineup he’s been given and the players do have to play the game. Of course, this season’s failures are not all land on one person. That said, there are a lot of lineup decisions that don’t make sense to me. The special teams are dismal this year. And, worst of all, this team has looked unmotivated too many times. After three years, shouldn’t they be motivated either by themselves of via the coaching staff?
Deryk F: Question is if we were willing to dish out Nino and Moulson plus picks, why is Cory Schneider not our goaltender. And for what purpose did we need to acquire clutterbuck? What are the chances of Moulson signing with us in the offseason, from both the view of club and himself. I’m sure many would love to see him in blue and orange again, no matter what numbers on his sweater (if Vanek will sign) the duo both being in the lineup would be sufficient

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

I’ll answer you questions in order:
First: From all accounts Snow made an offer for Schneider, but the Canucks did not like the offer. And it was not just a throw away deal that would easily be turned down.
Second: Clutterbuck is here because he fit the gritty hard nose identity that the Isles had last season and Snow thought he would help. Not for nothing either, he has played well in NY and many Wild fans said that Isles fans would love him.
Third: Moulson returning to the Islanders is an interesting question. On the one hand he loved it on Long Island and loved being a New York Islander. You could tell he loved playing with JT as well. On the other hand though, you could tell he was hurt when the team traded him to Buffalo. Whether he said it or not, it stung him and that could factor in him coming back to the Islanders if they made him an offer. I doubt he’s going to stay in upstate New York after this season.

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

I think with Nino, he didn’t have great value around the league. Teams knew the Islanders were trading from a position of weakness since he publicly asked for a trade and any time a first round pick is being traded, if you’re an opposing GM, you have to ask yourself ‘why?’ Sort of like the Rangers trying to unload Del Zotto. There’s something there the team that sees him every day doesn’t like. For me, and I said this at the time, the Clutterbuck trade wasn’t too bad. The problem was everything leading up to it (fourth line, no camp invite, pouting).
If you had given up Moulson for Schneider, let’s say, then it’s pick your poison. That’s a big hit to the offense but then you have a better goalie. As far as the summer, I don’t see Moulson coming back here, I think from the way everything was handled it’s a burned bridge.
Steven C: Matt Donovan was a -5 in 22 games. Aaron Ness is a -13 in 18 games. Why is Ness still on the big club? Bring Donovan back!!!!!! He actually has a future with this team where Ness doesn’t. Why is Andrew MacDonald still the QB on the power play? He has been terrible in that role and the pp has suffered. Donovan, de Haan or Hickey should be given a few games on the 1st pp. They can’t be any worse.

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

 I’ve seen much of the criticism of Ness and I just don’t think he’s as bad as some people want to believe. Has he made mistakes? Sure, he’s still a rookie, but I also think Donovan should not have been sent down either. They both have earned shots to play in the NHL. And I think de Haan would be a good power play QB if given the chance, so I agree there that he should be given time on the first power play unit.

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

Someone else should be given a chance. MacDonald play so many minutes as it is, he could use the break. De Haan ran the power play in Bridgeport this season, so it’s not like he’s completely unaccustomed to it. Donovan did get some power play time early in the year and I guess they didn’t like it. I’d like to De Haan get that shot.
Tom G: Do you think it was a mistake that the islanders did not give Griffin Reinhart a chance in any regular season games before sending him back to juniors? Personally this blunder by management never gets brought up and I’m confused why this topic has not been discussed more?

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

During camp I still thought he could have used more time in juniors, but now with 20/20 vision it wouldn’t have hurt to give him some playing time when he was here. I’ve had private conversations with other people about Reinhart, but I don’t know how much of a difference it would have made from a team standpoint.

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

This one I can give them a pass. You don’t count on Strait or Visnovsky getting injured. In a perfect world, you do want Reinhart back in juniors. Really crappy luck, I think. Also, you can’t pin the defensive disaster of this season on not keeping around an 18-year old. He might have helped but this year he likely wouldn’t have been a savior.
Bert M: Does anyone know anything on Lubo?

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

Nothing new that I have heard. 

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

No news is bad news at this point.
Nick R: With the Eastern Conference underachieving as a whole, is it realistic for the Islanders to still compete for a playoff spot?

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

I honestly still believe they could make the playoffs IF they can pull themselves together. They have to do a lot of winning, which yes I’m sure you laughed, can be done. We’ve seen the Islanders play well against some very good teams, but they have to figure out how to close games and not get so jumpy when their opponent starts to push back. 

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

It’s really amazing. The Oilers have one less point than the Islanders but their season is already over and the Isles, technically, is not. As of this morning, the Islanders are 9 points out. The Oilers are 17 points out. 17 is near impossible, 9 is unlikely but possible. If they can somehow get on a similar run they had like the end of last year they could sneak in.
Andre: If this season continues to freefall does Garth Snow get fired? What kind of organizational changes could fans expect?

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

No I don’t see Snow getting fired. Considering what Snow has done with the financial constraints he has I’d like to see what he could do with a real budget. If anything, it is Jack Capuano that gets let go by the organization if they do decide to make a change.

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

I’d agree with Christian. Capuano seems likely, maybe at the end of the year. Other than that, nope. Nothing. Hopefully they can get a free agent defender and/or goalie and/or convince Vanek to stay.
Patrick: Does it get to a point where Ratner and Co. get on the phone to Wang and ask him what the hell he is waiting for vis-a-vis this trainwreck of a season and the G.M.s contentment with the coach and effort?

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

Well considering the season the Brooklyn Nets are having right now, it’s hard to say they are in a position to lecture the Islanders about winning and how to run a team. Besides, I don’t see Ranter and company really having too much input on Wang’s decision making while he still owns the team.

Kevin Schultz, Islanders Point Blank:

After the great years the two Barclays teams had last year, it’s kind of unbelievable that both are at the bottom of their conferences. The Islanders still run hockey operations so as far as we know Barclays has no say in it. I’m sure they don’t want a last place team moving into their arena but we don’t know if there are performance penalties written into the lease or anything like that.
Nawarth: First, I want to thank you for your up to date information and all that you do Islanders. I was fine that the Islanders traded Moulson and the picks, but I still don’t understand why they (management) didn’t target a top defenseman or goalie. Any clue why they went after Vanek and not what the team actually needs? Thanks!

Christian Arnold, Islanders Point Blank:

It’s a question to me as well. Maybe Snow tried to make a move for a goaltender or defenseman and didn’t have any takers. And then decided that acquiring Vanek would help the team. But that’s more of a guess than anything. The answer is he was trying to jumpstart the team and believed that trading for Vanek would do so.
62 comments
gowhale
gowhale

Wang needs to reach deep into his pockets to take care of the goalie situation.  He's pinched pennies long enough.  Buck up...take the $2 mil you saved on JT's contract, plus the Stadium Series profits and the expected bonus to be paid by Yormark and push for a top flight goaltender.  This franchise can afford to overpay for an established goalie in his prime right now.

NotoriousPING
NotoriousPING

Can anyone tell me why Clutterbuck is being played on the PP? I thought maybe it was the Jack Daniels, but no, he was actually being put out there by Capuano. He is strictly a PK player, it makes me crazy!!

firecappy
firecappy

NEWSFLASH:  anybody that watches Elliot and Halak know that they are both terribly inconsistent yet EVERY media outlet keeps reporting that they are doing well.  I wonder how many of these media gurus watch the Blues on a regular basis.  Both have been pulled several times this season very early in games and they have a much better defense playing in front of them.  Either goalie would be an unmitigated disaster with the current defense and Snow should be fired on the spot if he signs either one.  Ryan Miller will be in St. Louis by the trade deadline if the Blues are serious about winning the Cup, otherwise the Blues are a second round knockout.


Dubnyk is probably going to lose his starting job if he hasn't already and Scrivens has the best defense in the NHL playing in front of him.  I would rather give Nilsson a real shot than sign any of the above.


Hiller would be the only serious answer.  Giguere is playing well but his is also 37 years old.  They probably wouldn't get more than 2 years out of him at best.


Remember, if the defense doesn't improve than any goalie that we sign is going to see his numbers drop, with the exception of Dubnyk, who already plays behind a hideous defense.


It would be nice if Poulin can play a game without letting up 4 goals.  Let's end that experiment now and bring up Nilsson.


Maybe we can trade for the new Rangers backup, Henrik Lundqvist?  (JOKING)

Isleguy27
Isleguy27

With all due respect Kevin, the latter goalies you mentioned would not be a good fit in my opinion. Dubnyk (terrible numbers), Gustavsson (42 games max in 09-10 and 11-12 with a .902%), Giguere (decent numbers, but 36 years old) and Scrivens (49 NHL games to date, obviously never been a starting goalie) Both at 28 years old, Halak or Elliot seem like better options. I suspect the Blues will sign one of them.

gleichzahl
gleichzahl

the big year for judging niederreiter will be next year, not this one.  if he pushes up to almost 20 goals this year, the question is can he keep going to a higher level next year and look like a 30 goal scorer eventually.

bailey is 23 years old.  that gives him maybe one more year before being officially a total bust.  right now, that's where he's headed.

poulin needs some good coaching.  his bad habits are pretty obvious, such as trying to dive face first on the puck for some weird reason, instead of standing in net.  i like his kick saves.  of course next year i'd prefer a real number one to either of the current goalies.

capuano just doesn't seem like an nhl coach to me.  the team does so many things wrong that a better coach might be able to address.

Dan Coscino
Dan Coscino

I don't see why Capuano seems to get somewhat of a pass from you guys. This team is way less than the sum of its parts yet he barely shuffles up the lineup night after night and just goes with the same player combos over and over again by rote. He has done this for years but this time there is proof that this team is capable of much more.

Yes, it isn't Cappy's fault that the defensemen are small or the goaltending is shaky, but the lousy special teams and lack of depth scoring is all about the coaching and a lack of strategy. Nielsen is having a tremendous year. why not put him between Vanek and KO and put JT with some different wingers to see if they get two lines going? (or just KO with Nielsen?). How about putting Nelson, Strome and KO out on a shift together to see what happens? Or JT, Vanek and Clutterbuck? They have 4 forwards on pace for around 30 goals, 2 blue chip rookies, a player that scored 30+ his rookie season (Grabner), an agitator with hands (Clutterbuck) and a constant underachiever that has had some success playing with JT and/or KO in the past (Bailey). There has to be some combination of those players that can form 3 scoring lines yet not only hasn't Cappy found it, he doesn 't even seem to be looking for it! Why not give Hamonic, Hickey or de Haan a shot on the 1st power play unit? Etc.

puckznpadz
puckznpadz

Last nights interview with Goring was a dog and pony show of the worst kind.  Could those questions and responses be anymore scripted?  I am so tired of this BS.  People say Wang saved the Isles from moving...2 Playoff appearances and 5 top 10 picks and what is there to show for it? 10 plus year of crap and mismanagement.  And this organization still cant find its butt with both hands and a flashlight.  People need to be held accountable.  Garth needs to admit that his judgement calls were off and that organization needs to be held accountable.

Dave SchuItz
Dave SchuItz

Thus if they could get Vanek to stay and moulson to come back the isles would really be an offensive power house, Okposso works harder than anyone on the ice, Hammer has big potential to be an offensive D man with his puck handling, he need to finish For my money Cizikas is going to be good for at least a couple 20 goal seasons and not to mention JT of course And players like Neilson and Grabs both very streaky players would thrive without the pressure of scoring and the addition of a moulson vanek or okposso on their line

Dave SchuItz
Dave SchuItz

Alright I usually agree with you guys, but I think that all of those questions depended heavily on the Islanders performance this season, mainly a hard playoff run at least past round one, something they haven't done in ages. The trade for Vanek as stands really didn't wind up being a blockbuster, I think moulson could have provided the same amount of offense, having said that Vanek is far better all around and actually gets back on defense. But vanek is not a defender and without Lubo in the back the Isles collapsed Any way, IF the isles could pull off a miracle and make it to playoffs, they might be able to hold onto Vanek (who more than likely will be going to the Wild after this season) then that alone would be worth the trade for Moulson, but the real genius would have been if they could reclaim Matt after the year and keep Vanek, again this is only possible with a hard playoff run and highly unlikely due to the way Matt was treated, but as an isles fan I'm always hopeful and who knows

wmayshays
wmayshays

Bailey does have ability and we've all seen it.  Bailey and his new contract are not going anywhere, so we need to make the best of the situation.

Split up KO and JT.  I've been saying this for a long time now.   KO has been playing great and is like a second captain on this team.  Put him on the next line and see if he can get Bailey going.  Not only does Bailey play his best  when lined up with KO, but we all know "Okboso, OKso-so" had his share of criticism last yr. Nelson likes to play near the net and could be the perfect center for that line.

Put  Strome on JT's RW.  I think Strome might be better served centering a good second line, but for now let him learn from the best while he plays along side JT.  There is no down side to that, if he does great with JT keep him there, if he develops but looks like he might need his own line then move him in time.

Keep Frans and Grabner together with Clutterbuck.

The fourth line needs a shot of adrenaline.  What it doesn't need is McDonald.  Bring up Lee and put him with Cizi and Martin.

hoser_14
hoser_14

For the life of me I still can't get over the Nino for Clutterbutthead trade.  Snow for whatever reason quickly give up on 21 year old Lotter Pick for a dime-a-dozen 3rd/4th liner.   Instead of playing Nino, Snow has Capuano play non-discript career minor leaguers like Keith Aucoin and Colon McDonald.

When Snow wants to keep certain players, he locks them up long term (Taraves, Okposo Hamonic, Grabner, Bailey....).   The fact Snow never showed any interest in re-signing  Moulson, so it wasn't too surprise when they he dump him.   Which is the same thing with A-Mac, he going to be voted off the Island, so maybe that could get something from the Bruins, who need a minute-eating D-Man 

truth77
truth77

@David Schwartz  Hey Dave,you said you Rewinded the game last Night I believe? What part do you  not get? Nino is not playing the top minutes on the power play he comes on the ice with 40 second left and has all season!If he was on the ice for the first 1.20 like  Parise and J.t. get he would have 15 goals buy now! Dont worry he will get those minutes next year dont forget he is only 21!

truth77
truth77

Buffalo and Anaheim are loaded with young Unfamiliar goal tenders right now.They wont be unknown in a few years.Try to get one of these young skilled individuals and it will pay dividends.look at Talbot for the Rangers he will be sitting behind King Henrik for along time, guys dont like to sit can he will be had by a smart G.M.Stop trying to sign the Me goaltender there are plenty of kids in the A.hl,ready to play right now!

Harris Peskin
Harris Peskin

just to be clear, a first round pick was never offered for schneider as staple reported.  Wasn't clear if Kevin understood that from his response

Don22
Don22

It's nice to see some others that realize why the Isles couldn't get more for Nino.  He was an overrated pick who's attitude didn't fit.  It is obvious GMs don't value him as much as some fans do. 

Alan Goldberg
Alan Goldberg

Here's the thing that I find absolutely mind blowing about this whole screwed up situation in the front office:

When Garth Snow traded for Thomas Vanek he said that there were higher expectations that the organization had for this year due to last year's playoff run.  If that's the case, how do you let your team play par to sub-par hockey for almost every single game since making that trade - and then absolve the coaching staff for everything that has gone wrong - like Snow did in Goring's interview.  Nobody that's employed by the NYI wants to ask those critical questions - not even the people reporting on the team - it's mind-blowing!  Snow should either fire the coach or stand with Wang and make a public apology to the fans for this disaster of a season.  After the first line,  Nielsen, and Nabakov not one single player has had a good season so far - and that's the truth.  Nothing will change unless the tone at the top changes!

Ryan
Ryan

In regards to the last question as to why Snow traded for Vanek instead of defensive or goaltending help, I think the thinking was:


Vanek is better than Moulson (I have to agree).  Snow also doesn't want to pay Moulson what he will ultimately command as a UFA.  With the way UFA's are all overpaid, Snow figured it was better to try and give Vanek a massive contract than to give Moulson 5.5 per for 5 years or whatever he signs for.  If Vanek will not resign, Snow probably thinks he can re-coup what he gave up to get Vanek in the first place, and since he never wanted to re-sign Moulson in the first place, everything would be OK.


Of course, he didn't envision the team completely tanking.  I am terrified of that first rounder he gave up, even with the ability to move it to 2015 if its a top 10 pick this year.  Let's say they finish in the bottom 5 this year and obviously keep the pick...now, as a fan, I have to worry about them stinking AGAIN next year AND not having their first round pick.  I get enough of that as a Knicks fan, thank you.  


I would hope the Islanders would make Vanek a big offer, something like 7 years 55 million, and if he rejects it and makes it clear he is leaving, deal him before the deadline.  They won't get a first rounder from a team that has as much risk of their pick being in the lottery as the Islanders do, but they have to get something back for Vanek...they CAN'T lose him for nothing.


Vicp73
Vicp73

@firecappy the goaltending issue should have been dealt with a year ago, Bernier, Bishop and Schneider were all there for the taking, Yzerman  acknowledged immediately that Lindback wasn't the answer, he traded Conacher for Bishop. Tampa now holds a playoff spot because of that move. Toronto wasn't sold on Reimer so they made a move. Scrivens and Frattin for Bernier, check out Berniers numbers. In Jersey the wise Lou Lamoriello realized that Marty wasn't going to be around forever. A 9th pick overall for a starting goalie is well worth it. 


We all knew this was an issue last year, Now why didn't Garth?? Usually a good GM is always two steps ahead, for some reason our GM is two steps behind. 


As for who they should sign, in my opinion i would go with Hiller

Ari BZ
Ari BZ

@firecappy Scrivens has put up better numbers than Quick in front of that same defense. I think Scrivens is the man for the Isles. 27 years young and playing extremely well. Scrivens/Poulin tandem next year I'd love to see.

hoser_14
hoser_14

I agree 1000%!   This is an organization would lose games that lose money and values loyality over results!  And it shows.....

red2
red2

@isles rule 

Allow me to say this about that, as I watched the interview, too.  Every announcer under the MSG umbrella is, to some degree a shill in Dolan's propaganda machine.  I have no doubt that Goring had to clear the questions he was going to ask Snow in advance.  To call him a shill is a bit disingenuous.  He's an employee, and if history is any indicator, and he wants to keep his job, he will tow the company line.

You can scream until you are blue in the face at Wang but, that's an absolute exercise in futility.  The New York Islanders are his toy, and he's going to play with that toy as he sees fit.  It's good to be King, and Wang rules this kingdom by appointing Snow the minion in charge of his toy box.  So you can huff and puff all you want but, you are not going to blow their house down.  Venting at them on this forum might make you feel good, a temporary relief from the legacy of losing but, I sincerely doubt either of them read the reviews here.

Of greater concern to me is the fact that with a straight face Snow said Capuano's job is safe.  He could have avoided the question, or he actually could have made sure the question was never asked.  The fact that Goring did ask the question means Snow was willing to tell the fans that it's going to be the same coaching staff going forward.  That's the coach that has lost this team.  When his players openly state on record that they are playing scared, or that they don't know what they are doing, that's the ultimate indictment of the coaching staff.  This coach has to go.  It's obvious the players are no longer playing for him, they are playing for themselves.  That's the crux of my complaint.  We, the fans, can't force the owner to sell.  We the fans, can't force the owner to fire the GM.  We can't even force the GM to fire the coach but, that's where your rant should be directed.

On another thread, a poster put up that the players are still desperate for wins.  Perhaps they are playing desperately but, they are not playing for their coach, rather themselves.  No player, at any level of any sport plays the game to lose.  These players are trying to win, but unlike what you saw yesterday with the New York Jets, these players are not playing for their coach.  Capuano has lost this team.  He lost it weeks ago and we can all see that.  He HAS to go...   

Harry F
Harry F

@gleichzahl what does a "real NHL coach" look like the? i get a kick out of this line every time. Do they need a mustache? or an NHL caliber defense? you tell me

Harry F
Harry F

@Dan Coscino so blow up the only line that scores to hope that it spreads out? before bailey and grabner went out the second line looked fine. Dehaan or Donovan should be on PP1 though, enough Macdonald

camb33
camb33

@puckznpadz Id' usually say why would anyone ever admit there mistakes and risk being fired by their boss, but the only mistake that could probably get snow fired is messing up wangs coffee order

Harry F
Harry F

@hoser_14 Nino asked for a trade because they put him, as a 21 year old mind you, not a star, in the AHL to let him develop, which seems to actually have helped him this season. Blame the team for rushing him the year before, but not for nino whining. And clutterbuck isnt a star, but he's far from a dime a dozen player, and without any PP time, injuries, and starting slow, he has 2 less goals than the great Nino.  Did Bailey complain when they sent him down for a few weeks to try to help him out? The isles take most of the blame for nino, but his agent and such are not blameless

camb33
camb33

@hoser_14 Nino hurt Snows feelings by asking for a trade, so he got rid of him

wmayshays
wmayshays

@Don22

What a dumb comment.  Nino stock has risen since being traded.  Why trade Nino when his stock is low.   If I'm Snow I tell Nino to suck a lemon.  Play hard change your attitude or rot in the AHL.  Are you going to tell me Nino had the leverage in that situation...Really???

Oh and why say he was an overrated pick?  Is that your professional opinion, lol.   Nino was ranked between 4-7 on almost every draft/mock draft board.  

David Schwartz
David Schwartz

@Don22 Playing top 6 minutes and been on the first PP all season and still only has 7 goals on the year.  I don't get it and even if you watch closely Nelson started to get into Nino's head midway through the second period and even gave him a stare down after the 3rd isles goal to tie the game.

Chris R
Chris R

@Ryan vanek better start putting up some numbers, or he wont get squat from snow

Chris R
Chris R

@Ryan Its hilarious, snowjob always says that money is not an issue..So if thats the case he should sign vanek(if vanek wants to stay) AND sign moulson... The front office is so full of donkey poo

wvAL
wvAL

Agree 100 percent. Why aren't we playing the young guys now to find out what they got and if they're an option for next season? They continue to ride Nabby but even if he takes them to the playoffs, we won't go far with him and we are still not any closer to finding our future goalie.

I feel we wasted an entire season and big question marks remain.

Vicp73
Vicp73

@Ari BZ @firecappy Scrivens has also lost his job to Martin Jones. He's been LA's starter for the last 10 games

Harry F
Harry F

@red2 @isles rule so they're playing for themselves but not the coach? huh? the one thing that hasn't happened is the coach losing this team. who hasnt' played hard? Not getting results and not playing hard are different. A legit coaching complaint is the goaltending use and player usage, not just blabbering about "losing the team". How can you say he lost the team weeks ago when they've played better (albeit not much better) the last 2 weeks or so? its because they are playing for themselves now? do you actually realize what you write? Things are a mess, but its because of a lack of talent, due to lack of funds, relying on rookies, and some weird player usage, not because a coach "lost the team" of young players. 

gleichzahl
gleichzahl

@Harry F @gleichzahl well, i hope you're right.  this team doesn't look all that strong on fundamentals, especially in their own end.  they give up goals early in periods, and after they've just managed to score.  they fail to clear the puck over and over.  they don't get the puck deep on offense...

i don't know what a coach should 'look like,' but i'd like a hockey team that looks a little better than this one.

red2
red2

@Harry F @Dan Coscino 

No,,, Bailey and Grabner looked awesome for the first six games of the season.  It was at that point that the rocket scientist at the top of the coaching chain decided to split them up to balance out the scoring.  That first line was a bit off at the time.  Needless to say, Snow took care of that by acquiring Vanek.  That solved the problem,,,right???  

Now that Vanek has found a home with Tavares and Okposo, and producing too, Grabner and Bailey are not the same with Nielsen.  Grabner and Nielsen play well together, Bailey just seems to be skating in mud.  Perhaps it's just an off year but, getting him off that line and putting Clutterbuck there on a regular basis might be the right solution...

tag1
tag1

@wmayshays@Don22 It's funny how the usual suspects say you have to give the Isles prospects time that they are young and it's too early to judge them (even Bailey) and yet these same people are blasting Nino like he's not young and can't get any better.

isles23
isles23

@David. I wish I knew what was said between Brock and Nino on the one faceoff. I would like to think Brock said something to the affect of "you going to quit on your new teammates like you did with me last year?"

Don22
Don22

@Chris R @Ryan Moulson is not worth the money he is going to get.  He will probably get in the area of 6 mil, but is in now way the equal to most guys on that level.  He is a nice goal scorer for sure, but that's really it.  The money can be better spent somewhere else. 

David Schwartz
David Schwartz

@Chris R @Ryan I personally find Moulson an overrated one trick pony who is a defensive liability.  He picked up all of JT's garbage in front of the net and was/is slow as hell.  This team doesn't need anymore forwards beyond Vanek due to the players they are committed to.  They need a top flight defenseman and a top tier goalie so if Snow again doesn't spend a lot on a goalie this offseason(terrible options last offseason) then I will agree that Snow is full of donkey poo, but I also agree with Snow doing a good job(yes he made a ton of early mistakes as a guy with no experience as a GM) with the severe constraints put on him and would love to see what he can do with a more open budget like he is sure to get at Barclays.

red2
red2

@Harry F 

I stand by what i said, and I have repeated it time and time again.  Do you watch Capuano's press conferences after these games???  His foot is in his mouth more than his mouth is moving.  And yes,,, I realize exactly what I write, and I have written the same thing over and over these past few weeks.  Cizikas says they played scared.  Nabokov said they didn't know what they were doing.  That's a testament to the coaching, and nothing else.  If they are still playing hard, they are doing so because they want to win, not because they are doing it for Capuano... 

red2
red2

@gleichzahl @Harry F 

A real NHL coach looks different from the one we've got.  Maybe it's the suit, the tie, or the hair cut but, it's something different because we do NOT have a real NHL coach.  We've got an empty suit with a bad hair cut on top that has lost this team.  He lost it weeks ago and it's obvious to any one that's paying attention.  A tell???  After last night's impressive win, the players filed into the locker room.  Capuano stood there and high five'd every player as they walked by.  Not one, not a single one, made eye contact with his coach.  

Harry F
Harry F

@Don22 to further your point, he sulked because of playing the whole season in the AHL, but then now, it looks like that year in the AHL helped him, if all of the people who think Nino is a star now are to believed. Without that year in the minor is he better this year? probably not. And look at boulton more points than a top end prospect, in the same role. 

tag1
tag1

@Don22 Don I don't try to predict the future that's why I feel that "prospects" are a roll of the dice, however, if people on here are going to post that Bailey is still young (24) and it's too early to give up on him then the same should apply to Nino who is even younger (21) and who can very well get better. 


A happy and healthy to you too Don.

Don22
Don22

@dkdk @tag1 - I get what you are both saying and I'm not defending Garth. I guess I sometimes don't articulate myself well.  What I am trying to say is that I feel that Nino has almost become like a legend and I believe most of it is because of people's opinions of Garth.  He very well may turn into a good player.  But I don't feel he's done anything to get the accolades he gets.  I know he played with scrubs when he was up, but that is still no reason that he should have had only 1 point. He may have talent, but I don't think he has it upstairs - at least not yet.  I feel he expected things to be handed it to him and instead of fighting it and working hard to prove Garth/Cap wrong, he sulked.  The powers that be felt that he was better served playing in BP last year, especially in a short season with no training camp.  Does that motivate him?  No, instead he pouts again and demands a trade.  Should Garth have traded him at that point? Maybe not, but he's not a player I want on my team.  I would rather have Clutterbuck.  On that point, I wonder if you polled MN fans - how many would say they miss Clutter?  Or how many say they like Nino? 

Anyway, happy New Year to you both.  Be safe and we can continue the debate(s) in 2014. 

dkdk
dkdk

And may I also add if people simply say Nino's numbers are not impressive so he isn't a big talent better look at Brock Nelson's numbers before carving his hall of fame bust. Niño looked pretty good to me last night. I like Nelson too, but if you want to solely use stats for one you better do it for both.

tag1
tag1

I didn't have you in mind Don but we have been preached to on here that you can't judge these young players until they hit their mid and late 20's Does that only apply to Isles prospects? I have also made the same point that dk made and that is no matter how you look at it snow screwed up the 5th overall pick

dkdk
dkdk

@don, I don't want to speak for others but being drafted 5th overall means the GM said he is an elite prospect, not the fans. And if he isn't the GM F'd up taking him. And if he is elite the GM F'd up trading him. So either way this is a snow blunder.

Don22
Don22

@tag1@wmayshays@Don22wmays - Nino stock has risen since being traded?  Is that your professional opinion too?  I'm not saying that Garth should have traded him. The argument you see most is "how could they only get Clutterbuck?".  It's because GMs didn't see as much value as fans do.  And I'm not sure what boards you have been looking at, but I've always seen him ranked around 10 or lower.  

And Tag - I'm not sure, but I guess you are talking about me.  I'm not blasting Nino.  Do I think he is an overrated talent?  Yes, but based on how everyone seems to think he is the next elite player.  His high status in the eyes of most Isles fans is due to the hatred for Garth.  They have inflated his value to the point that this was the worst trade ever, when fact is most GMs didn't want him.  He very well may become a good player down the road but as far as I am concerned, if a player wants out and has the attitude he had of not wanting to fight through adversary - hit the road.

Harry F
Harry F

@David Schwartz @Chris R @Ryan its easy to say we need a top flight defensmen and goalie, but top dmen just arent available. Dallas gave up Neal because they thought Goligowski would be a top dman, and look how that has worked out. We have to hope the young defense prospects blossom, or else be comfortable with gutting the farm system for a dman who isnt a true top pair dman (because good teams dont trade their good dmen) and hope he can get better (lie streit early on).  As far as goaltending, someone like nuevrith might be worth a look, because its been proven that spending big on G isnt really a lock to actually get a good goaltender, and really, outside of Miller, who goalie does well in front of a crap team?Toronto giives up shots all day, but they pressure the other team and score. 

Chris R
Chris R

@David Schwartz @Chris R @Ryan hahahahha..he aint my man, i cant stand the man..i wish i could call him other names than wingwang but this blog would delete it..

David Schwartz
David Schwartz

@Chris R @David Schwartz @Ryan Your man "wingwang" will for the first time since owning the team be making an actual profit so its really hard to foresee how he will act as an owner in terms of opening up the purse strings more.  Obviously I also hope you are wrong.  

Chris R
Chris R

@David Schwartz @Chris R @Ryan I hope im wrong, but im not to sure if he'll have a bigger budget when they move to BK, this is wingwang we're talking about..IMO the budget won't change...